De heren van Teijlingen - Bewerkingsoverzicht

Geneanvdp: /* Nagel family in the list of loans */

2026-01-06T09:03:01Z

Nagel family in the list of loans

← Oudere versie		Versie van 6 jan 2026 09:03
Regel 836:		Regel 836:
	It then continues on Brederode.		It then continues on Brederode.

	====[[Nagel family]] in the list of loans====		==[[Nagel family]] in the list of loans==
	There seem to be 5 different people named Nagel, holding 4 plots:		There seem to be 5 different people named Nagel, holding 4 plots:

Geneanvdp: /* Simon, first lord of Teijlingen, and his offspring */

2025-02-17T21:34:48Z

Simon, first lord of Teijlingen, and his offspring

← Oudere versie		Versie van 17 feb 2025 21:34
Regel 112:		Regel 112:
	* In 1048 Dirk van Holland was defeated. No wife, no kids. Brothers Dirk and Simon returned his [https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floris_I_(graaf) brother Floris] of East-Frisia and made him count of Holland.		* In 1048 Dirk van Holland was defeated. No wife, no kids. Brothers Dirk and Simon returned his [https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floris_I_(graaf) brother Floris] of East-Frisia and made him count of Holland.
	* Dirk van Brederode dies 1063, son Willem succeeds. Not much there on what happened.		* Dirk van Brederode dies 1063, son Willem succeeds. Not much there on what happened.
	* Simon, the other son of Sicco, had a son Gerrit, banner-heer, was in Egmond klooster in ~~1043~~, already an old man. He had sons Hugo, third of Teijlingen, and Willem (0) van Teijlingen, ridder.		* Simon, the other son of Sicco, had a son Gerrit, banner-heer, was in Egmond klooster in 1143, already an old man. He had sons Hugo, third of Teijlingen, and Willem (0) van Teijlingen, ridder.
	* This Hugo ''won'' (gained, acquired, had... in Dutch landwinning, is getting land from the sea, extracting minerals is also winning) Willem (#149), fourth of Teijlingen. This fourth Willem helped the first Willem of Holland greatly against Lodewijk van Loen in the year 1203, ''as we can read in the Croniken van Holland''.		* This Hugo ''won'' (gained, acquired, had... in Dutch landwinning, is getting land from the sea, extracting minerals is also winning) Willem (#149), fourth of Teijlingen. This fourth Willem helped the first Willem of Holland greatly against Lodewijk van Loen in the year 1203, ''as we can read in the Croniken van Holland''.
	* This Willem won Willem fifth (#202), and Dirk (Drossaard). These brothers ''floruit'' in 1252 in the times of [https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_II_van_Holland#Kroning king Willem], count of Holland, king of Rome.		* This Willem won Willem fifth (#202), and Dirk (Drossaard). These brothers ''floruit'' in 1252 in the times of [https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_II_van_Holland#Kroning king Willem], count of Holland, king of Rome.
Regel 130:		Regel 130:
	Dirk IV (-1048) Dirk van Brederode Simon van Teijlingen		Dirk IV (-1048) Dirk van Brederode Simon van Teijlingen
	(?-1063) \|		(?-1063) \|
	x Alverardis van Heusden Gerrit #124 (?->~~1043~~)		x Alverardis van Heusden Gerrit #124 (?->1143)
	\| / \		\| / \
	Willem van Lecke Hugo #143 Willem #0		Willem van Lecke Hugo #143 Willem #0

Geneanvdp: /* Agree and disagree */

2025-01-04T09:24:59Z

Agree and disagree

← Oudere versie		Versie van 4 jan 2025 09:24
Regel 860:		Regel 860:

	D: Most unclear is Florentius ''frater domini''.		D: Most unclear is Florentius ''frater domini''.
	Was he a brother of Dirk Willemsz and thus Florens son of W#202? He would not have succeeded cause the lordship had passed down and could not go back up again (kwade lenen).		Was he a brother of Dirk Willemsz and thus Florens son of W#202? That Florens is attested elswhere. He would not have succeeded cause the lordship had passed down and could not go back up again (kwade lenen).
	Or was he brother of Willem Dirksz, who was the last ''dominus'' for only a few weeks? He would not have succeeded his brother, the lordship only passed down (kwade lenen).		Or was he brother of Willem Dirksz, who was the last ''dominus'' for only a few weeks? He is not attested elsewhere. He would not have succeeded his brother, the lordship only passed down (kwade lenen).
	Or was he a son of Willem Dirksz~~? Unlikely~~, cause the line would not have died out then, ~~and he would not have a~~ ''frater'' that was ''dominus''.		Unlikely that he was a son of Willem Dirksz, cause the line would not have died out then, there is no mention of any ''frater'' that was ''dominus''.

	If son of Hughe/Hugo, most likely not #143, what brother was dominus then?		If son of Hughe/Hugo, most likely not #143, what brother was dominus then?

Geneanvdp: /* Agree and disagree */

2025-01-04T09:21:38Z

Agree and disagree

← Oudere versie		Versie van 4 jan 2025 09:21
Regel 859:		Regel 859:
	A: All agree on Simon and Florens being brothers to Dirk.		A: All agree on Simon and Florens being brothers to Dirk.

	D: Most unclear is Florentius frater domini.		D: Most unclear is Florentius ''frater domini''.
	Was he a brother of Dirk Willemsz and thus Florens son of W#202? He would not have succeeded cause the lordship had passed down and could not go back up again (kwade lenen).		Was he a brother of Dirk Willemsz and thus Florens son of W#202? He would not have succeeded cause the lordship had passed down and could not go back up again (kwade lenen).
	Or was he brother of Willem Dirksz, who was the last dominus for only a few weeks? He would not have succeeded his brother, the lordship only passed down (kwade lenen).		Or was he brother of Willem Dirksz, who was the last ''dominus'' for only a few weeks? He would not have succeeded his brother, the lordship only passed down (kwade lenen).
	Or was he a son of Willem Dirksz? Unlikely, cause the line would not have died out then.		Or was he a son of Willem Dirksz? Unlikely, cause the line would not have died out then, and he would not have a ''frater'' that was ''dominus''.

	If son of Hughe/Hugo, most likely not #143, what brother was dominus then?		If son of Hughe/Hugo, most likely not #143, what brother was dominus then?

Geneanvdp: /* Agree and disagree */

2025-01-04T09:17:58Z

Agree and disagree

← Oudere versie		Versie van 4 jan 2025 09:17
Regel 859:		Regel 859:
	A: All agree on Simon and Florens being brothers to Dirk.		A: All agree on Simon and Florens being brothers to Dirk.

	D: Most unclear is Florentius frater domini. Was he a brother of Dirk and thus Florens, son of ~~Willem, but not~~ W#202? Of Willem Dirksz.?		D: Most unclear is Florentius frater domini.
			Was he a brother of Dirk Willemsz and thus Florens son of W#202? He would not have succeeded cause the lordship had passed down and could not go back up again (kwade lenen).
			Or was he brother of Willem Dirksz, who was the last dominus for only a few weeks? He would not have succeeded his brother, the lordship only passed down (kwade lenen).
			Or was he a son of Willem Dirksz? Unlikely, cause the line would not have died out then.

	If son of Hughe/Hugo, most likely not #143, what brother was dominus then?		If son of Hughe/Hugo, most likely not #143, what brother was dominus then?

	After reading NV04, I say Floris is brother of the last leenheer Willem Dirksz van Teijlingen, also Floris van Tollne, so #228, #282, frem#6, frem#42, altough some may also refer to his son.		After reading NV04, I say Floris is brother of the last leenheer Willem Dirksz van Teijlingen, also Floris van Tollne, so #228, #282, frem#6, frem#42, altough some may also refer to his (Floris Willemsz) son (Floris Florisz).
	If Dirk was son of W#202 he died old, maybe up to 80. If grandson he might have been 60.		If Dirk was son of W#202 he died old, maybe up to 80. If grandson he might have been 60.
	Willem Dirksz died young, and was born around 1230 in the first case, arond 1250 in the latter. The first Floris ''floruit'' in 1250, so must have at least been adult by then. Might have been a father already in 1250, so the son Floris could have been married to Marcelia already, and a mention around 1283 could refer to either.		Willem Dirksz died young, and was born around 1230 in the first case, arond 1250 in the latter. The first Floris ''floruit'' in 1250, so must have at least been adult by then. Might have been a father already in 1250, so the son Floris could have been married to Marcelia already, and a mention around 1283 could refer to either.

Geneanvdp: /* Floris brother of W#149 */

2025-01-04T09:06:40Z

Floris brother of W#149

← Oudere versie		Versie van 4 jan 2025 09:06
Regel 784:		Regel 784:
	Johannes A Leydis mentions a Floris that died 1198, haven't seen him mentioned anywhere else.		Johannes A Leydis mentions a Floris that died 1198, haven't seen him mentioned anywhere else.
	So Floris could be a brother to W#149, as BI states, born around 1160 or even 1170, but it would be unlikely the he would be the same Floris that fl. 1250. I haven't seen him mentioned anywhere either.		So Floris could be a brother to W#149, as BI states, born around 1160 or even 1170, but it would be unlikely the he would be the same Floris that fl. 1250. I haven't seen him mentioned anywhere either.
	Floris could be a son of W#149, but he is ficticious for now. W#~~202~~'s sons Willem and Dirk are assumed to have been born 1170-1180, and W#~~149~~ died 1244. Even when born 1180 he would have been 70 when 'living 1250'.		Floris could be a son of W#149, but he is ficticious for now. W#149's sons Willem and Dirk are assumed to have been born 1170-1180, and W#202 died 1244. Even when born 1180 he would have been 70 when 'living 1250'.

	===Florens, son of W#202===		===Florens, son of W#202===

Geneanvdp: /* List of loanes */

2024-11-30T12:58:03Z

List of loanes

← Oudere versie		Versie van 30 nov 2024 12:58
Regel 835:		Regel 835:

	It then continues on Brederode.		It then continues on Brederode.

			====[[Nagel family]] in the list of loans====
			There seem to be 5 different people named Nagel, holding 4 plots:

			* 15 '''Willem Naghel ende Ysebrant''' , met ghesamender hant , v marghen lants in die crofte , van des heren halven van Thelinghen .
			* 22 '''Symon Naghel''' ibi juxta jugera valentia XXX s . annuatim .
			* 43 '''Gerart Naghel''' te Voerhoute die woninghe , daer hi in wonet , ende die croft , daer hi oec in wonet , ende enen camp die leghet benorden sire woninghen . Dit hevet hi ontfaen van des heren weghen van Thelinghe .
			* 50 '''Jan Naghel''' vijftehalf morghen lants ; des leghet 1 morghen tusscen Vloedorp ende Anghenvort , ende vierdehalf morghen voer Jans huus uten Houte , ende een stalhuus van drien valken , ende ene halve moelen

			How would they be related to eachother, and to the Nagels found in Delft?

	==Foycken==		==Foycken==

Geneanvdp: /* Sicco legend */

2024-11-23T11:13:49Z

Sicco legend

← Oudere versie		Versie van 23 nov 2024 11:13
Regel 450:		Regel 450:
	<span style="color:blue">2) HdGvC. That is unfounded. He comes from the Van Voorne family and had a.o. a daughter Justine, that married secondly to DvC, viscount of Leiden.</span> I hope to be able to speak in more detail of this elsewhere.		<span style="color:blue">2) HdGvC. That is unfounded. He comes from the Van Voorne family and had a.o. a daughter Justine, that married secondly to DvC, viscount of Leiden.</span> I hope to be able to speak in more detail of this elsewhere.

			===[https://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_bij005191401_01/_bij005191401_01_0005.php De oudste goederenlijsten der Abdij van Egmond], Mr. S. Muller Fz., 1914===
	===Sicco legend===		===Sicco legend===
	Dirk Paulszoon wrote about the Sicco-leggend. Johannes a Leydis might have expanded on it.		Dirk Paulszoon wrote about the Sicco-leggend. Johannes a Leydis might have expanded on it.

Geneanvdp: /* Egmundensia */

2024-11-23T11:11:52Z

Egmundensia

← Oudere versie		Versie van 23 nov 2024 11:11
Regel 473:		Regel 473:
	On GO [https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/kwartierstaat-dietz/I13080.php Dietz], without naming sources, makes him have a son Simon, Gerard, and Gerrit, apparently following BI.		On GO [https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/kwartierstaat-dietz/I13080.php Dietz], without naming sources, makes him have a son Simon, Gerard, and Gerrit, apparently following BI.

	===~~Egmundensia===~~		===[https://books.google.nl/books?id=IIlyxnCjGz0C&pg=PA171#v=onepage&f=false Egmundensia], Bakhuizen van den Brink, 1857===
	[https://books.google.nl/books?id=IIlyxnCjGz0C&pg=PA171#v=onepage&f=false Egmundensia], Bakhuizen van den Brink, 1857
	Een beschrijving, transcriptie en interpretatie van de archieven van de abdij van Egmond, die mede de bron geweest zijn van Johannes a Leydis.		Een beschrijving, transcriptie en interpretatie van de archieven van de abdij van Egmond, die mede de bron geweest zijn van Johannes a Leydis.

Geneanvdp: /* Sicco legend */

2024-11-23T11:11:26Z

Sicco legend

← Oudere versie		Versie van 23 nov 2024 11:11
Regel 472:		Regel 472:
	Gerard begat Hugo, who begat Willem, who begat Dirk (Drossaert) and Willem, the latter begat Dirk, Willem, Simon, and Floris, to emphasis his Van Holland descent.		Gerard begat Hugo, who begat Willem, who begat Dirk (Drossaert) and Willem, the latter begat Dirk, Willem, Simon, and Floris, to emphasis his Van Holland descent.
	On GO [https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/kwartierstaat-dietz/I13080.php Dietz], without naming sources, makes him have a son Simon, Gerard, and Gerrit, apparently following BI.		On GO [https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/kwartierstaat-dietz/I13080.php Dietz], without naming sources, makes him have a son Simon, Gerard, and Gerrit, apparently following BI.

			===Egmundensia===
			[https://books.google.nl/books?id=IIlyxnCjGz0C&pg=PA171#v=onepage&f=false Egmundensia], Bakhuizen van den Brink, 1857
			Een beschrijving, transcriptie en interpretatie van de archieven van de abdij van Egmond, die mede de bron geweest zijn van Johannes a Leydis.

	===[https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=MMKB05:000033941 Historia dominorum de Teysterband, Arckel, Egmonda, Brederoede, Ysselsteyn etc.], W.F. Andriessen, 1933===		===[https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=MMKB05:000033941 Historia dominorum de Teysterband, Arckel, Egmonda, Brederoede, Ysselsteyn etc.], W.F. Andriessen, 1933===